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Post by LOVELY on May 16, 2018 16:15:45 GMT -8
Posted by LOVELY on October 06, 1997 at 19:25:44:
In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Georgia Powers on October 06, 1997 at 14:28:57:
I agree with you GP, rules are not to be broken regardless of pure pressure, I think you have been more than fair in allowing "some" to really bend the rules at times on very interesting discussions!
BUFFY has a lot to offer, but she has to realize it, and offer it in a civil, legal manner. Until then, she will have to be satisfied to be in the "buffer one or is it the buffy zone."
End of Discussion
HAVE A LOVELY DAY!
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Post by 49er will on May 16, 2018 16:18:34 GMT -8
Posted by 49er will on October 07, 1997 at 03:40:28:
In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by LOVELY on October 06, 1997 at 19:25:44:
Had to go back to the archives too see what started the Buffy/Lovely conflict and it would seem to me that it could be two stock brokers arguing about who make more money ,has better boss,better office,who is ethicaly and status is above the other.So not to beat a dead horse or to split hairs it's normal to see Buffy's reaction to Lovely's onslaught.Rules are rules but it's transparent ,your bias towards Buffy.I came across Bashful's site last December so altercations are not new and although I haven't been posting for long I think Buffy and You would be at lest artist in your feilds, a commuon ground to work from.Then again some people don't mesh. 49er Will
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Post by Treadhead on May 16, 2018 16:21:39 GMT -8
Posted by Treadhead on October 06, 1997 at 22:42:40:
In Reply to: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 06, 1997 at 00:48:09:
I regard the people on this board as friends--even though I've never met anyone face to face. I, like a lot of us, have gotten rather attatched to the board and the people on it.
Doc, I respect you for having the guts to bring out into the open what a lot of us were thinking.
I agree with you. Buffy has contributed a lot to this board--both from the benefit of her experience--and from the laughs she gave us. Her style was a bit rough--but she was genuine. When she said something, it came from the heart.
I have a great deal of respect for GP--even though I disagree with his actions.
For what it's worth, I hope you decide to stay. It is also my hope that in spite of the many differences of opinion, ideas and what have you, that we all remain friends in the end.
In closing, I hope I didn't cause anyone any offense or grief.
Treadhead
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Post by ArcticBear on May 16, 2018 16:25:45 GMT -8
Posted by ArcticBear on October 07, 1997 at 00:19:03:
In Reply to: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 06, 1997 at 00:48:09:
"Well, this is another fine mess you've gotten us into Olie!"
Folks, we all have chosen to participate in this forum for one reason or another. GP has always been a gracious host that has let us have a certain amount of latitude aroung the rules of the board. It in fact was that tenor that first attracted me and I suspect most of you. However, the tune of the board has been changing alot in the last few months. The spirit of information exchange has been often overshadowed by often lewd, crued and sometimes offensive posts that made us look more like uncontroled adolesents rather than serious adults with a serious pasttime.
We all know the purpose and the rules and GP has been very loose about letting us expand on it. I think it's time for us to back off GP and support what had to be a hard decision. We are his guests and it is not our place to turn this forum into something other than GP conceived.
As for Buffy, we all have some responsibility. We encouraged her to continue to push the limit even when GP tried to nicely curb it. Buffy, if you can read this, I hope that you will reconsider GPs offer. You do have a lot to offer to this board, and I suspect you can easily do it without trying to shock, or be offensive. The balls in your court.
GP, sometimes it ain't so good to be the king. I realize you've had a shitty week but there are those of us that do support your decisions even when they're the tough ones. Keep up the good work, this week will most likely be better.
The main thing that I like about this board is the people. They have class. Not just the ladies but all of you, GP, Doc, Bashful, Flyfisher, Omerta, Pat and all the rest. Even you Bamboo. Buffy does too, I just hope she realizes it so we can get back on our merry path.
An Awfully Longwinded ArcticBear
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Post by joecamel on May 16, 2018 16:31:07 GMT -8
finally!!!!!!
Posted by joecamel on October 07, 1997 at 01:13:59: In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by ArcticBear on October 07, 1997 at 00:19:03:i would have never expressed it more better. bravo Arcticbear!! i don't want to put anyone down, but there is a line between moderated fun and chaos. sticking up for a friend is fine and dandy, but one must be clear what one is really defending. like too few of the post here have mentioned, GP has the un-easy job of running and moderating this board. he has laid down the law in writiing months before and anyone who's been here long enough knows those rules. the fact that he let us slide speaks volumes on his patience. but at what point should he step in and take back control of a run-away, bull and put it back on its set path. it seems that when he did exactly that, he is attacked for doing what was written in months ago. should we say that all the rules apply to anyone but one person? or it only applys to the johns and not the ladies. there were two reasons i am interested in this board.
1. a place for discussion about the legalize prostitution.
2. a discussion forum not spam to death. like most of the newgroups now a days.
thanks to GP who spends his money and time, this board is possible. yet we attack him for doing his job. should we allow open flame war, name calling, and all out have at its here? i for one thanks GP for this great place where i can read post, and read post from like minds. there is nothing better than a well written, well though out, piece of work be someone who are really interested in the subject matter being written about. and i would really miss some of those authors who are willing to abandom this FREE place of gathering.
joecamel
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Post by Katherine Leigh on May 16, 2018 16:33:26 GMT -8
Come out come out where ever you are.....
Posted by Katherine Leigh on October 07, 1997 at 10:31:19: In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by ArcticBear on October 07, 1997 at 00:19:03:(Such an eloquent Bear)
Buffy, as I see it the ball is in your court. As I read through these posts, it seems that pretty much everything that could have been said has been said.
Having said that,
Come on back. Rules are a bummer but they are part of life. I have no idea what GP has asked of you, but I sure hope, that you will be able to figure out a way to work with these rules and return to all your pals.
We miss you, Katherine
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Post by Flyfisher on May 16, 2018 16:39:53 GMT -8
Posted by Flyfisher on October 07, 1997 at 00:25:06:
In Reply to: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 06, 1997 at 00:48:09:
GP, Buffy, Doc:
Lines get drawn in the sand and expectations are made that force we to draw upon a wisdom of Solomon that I do not possess. For the record: the two greatest e-pals I have in the whole world are Doc and Buffy. I admire them because of what we share in common and the differences we hold. Both have helped me explore and understand issues I've been totally ignorant on. Even more, we hold heartfelt feelings as friends. Most of that is personal. I don't know GP as well as my e-pals, but my correspondance with GP has been cordial and friendly. This board has been a great place to learn and meet others and I value it immensely. Without the board I wouldn't have come into contact with Buffy. Buffy has opened my eyes to many things through her posting. I'll never walk into a house again being so star struck and overwhelmed. Buffy is one of the most honest persons I've ever corresponded with. Her raw edged honesty is beautiful.
Doc is the author of the term cyberwhoremonger. He is a well thought man and also holds strong conviction and passion. That's why I admire him so much. Lines get drawn in the sand, though, right? My friends are waiting for me to close ranks and join them. These are my honest thoughts and it may cost me friends, but here it is:
This is GP's board. He has the right to decide the tone, flavor and conduct of the posting. He pays a substantial sum so that you and I can share our feelings and thoughts. GP is financially and legally liable and has the right to call any and all shots---whether I agree or not.
I disagree with GP's decision to ban Buffy. It's his decision, though. Buffy does add value to the board. But no one person has the right to over post or dominate more than their fair share of content, either. While some of Buffy's postings are visceral, she has offered a view point that is so valid, so frank and honest it begs to be heard. Buffy feels singled out. That's the way it appears to me GP. For the record: I don't like it. The line in the sand is clearly drawn. Nobody can save face under these conditions---deep understanding of each others feelings need to be weighed. Otherwise, someone has to capitulate and a healthy win-win situation is unobtainable. The principals involved in this have to solve it.
GP has the right to run this board as he sees fit, even if it isn't popular with me or my friends.
My opinion won't change anything. I've made it clearly known. I only hope that a friendly resolution can be made because we've rendered a tear in the fabric of our cyber community. Those are my thoughts. With respect to all principals, Flyfisher
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Post by native on May 16, 2018 16:45:58 GMT -8
Posted by native on October 07, 1997 at 01:45:41:In Reply to: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 06, 1997 at 00:48:09:i have lurked for a while now and was reluctant to say a single word but i think we are all missing something here we want gp to provide this service we need gp to provide this service but it seems that when it comes time to behave all we can say is get lost gp your infringing on my god given right, i speak little but observe a lot and what i see here is many people we find it easy to critize gp for taking what we might call excessive action yet not wanting to take any responsibility for our own actions and words, we are all to blame for this sorry mess, we have seen what is happening and yet refuse to speak up and police ourselves, we would rather attack gp for attempting to do what we want him to do, do any of us want to return to the days of usenet? i don't and i doubt that you do either, we don't know what caused gp to do what he did, could it not possibly be that things were spiraling out of control? could it not possibly be as remote as we might think that buffy crossed the line one time to many? the only one that can answer that question is gp himself/herself?? who are we to question his integrity in this matter especially when one considers that we did little to assist him, we sure love to complain we americans yet when it comes time to take action we move slower than the american tortoise, maybe gp was wrong and maybe gp was right but that is not the point here at all, the real point is we allowed this situation to develop to th point that gp had to step in and do what we should have done a long time ago, moderate, what is wrong with us moderating ourselves? im not been around long but i have been here long enough to know what the rules are, they sound pretty simple enough to me, now i dont have much education and really don't speak all that well but i think it is time for all of us to consider that what we have here is pretty damn good and free at that, i dont care the least bit about this matter and what ever the final result is or what gps final decision is we will all have to live with it, its high time that we start acting like the adults we claim to be and not the children that are, i thought some of buffys posts were relivent and some where not but nobody spoke up and said anything, we just kept egging things on, since buffy isnt here we dont know what her thoughts are on this but before we start passing judgement on gp for doing what we all really want him to do why don't we shut up and take a look at ourselves and consider what we have said or done, i rememvber reading somewhere before that one should not critize until we have walked a mile in that persons shoes, i know i couldnt do what he does but am thankful he does, signed native in spirit and in mind one with earth and wind moon and stars, enjoying what life has to offer without uttering a word that marrs
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Post by Counsel on May 16, 2018 17:57:42 GMT -8
Posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 15:48:22:
In Reply to: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 06, 1997 at 00:48:09:
I have deliberately not voiced an opinion on the board on this, as I saw no use in doing so. I see posts going from one view to another, and they're all becoming repetitive. No sense in adding another repetitive post to add to GP's bandwidth,, I thought.
I haven't researched the law regarding the risks associated with posts that go way into the "lewd zone" or what "bright line" there might be between a post, for instance, that
(1) asks for a lady's schedule and she responds with an e-mail address; or, alternatively,
(2) a post that asks if she performs a certain act and she says "sure!," etc. etc.
I'm not a criminal lawyer any more. When I first started practicing law, I was "thrown in with the wolves" and probably tried 100+ criminal cases in a 2-year period from the defense end. Some D.A.s were accommodating, laid back types. Others were sharks, and found crimes where none existed so they could make a name for themselves by championing some popular cause.
I do know is that lawyers are more sensitive to certain legal risks than other people. We're supposed to be; we aren't worried about the situations that flow smoothly or the contract that never gets breached.
There are both U.S. and state DAs, as you well know, that would, if they simply knew it was here, try to make a case that simply responding to a schedule request with an e-mail address is pandering. It's a career-building thing for them: "What's going on out there that I can turn into a crime? How can I advance my career? I know! I'll stand up for morality and decency by slamming this guy that's running a board for whores. There's no way any red-blooded American jury (comprised, I hope, of the Sunday ladies' garden club) will see it any differently." He wants to make a name for himself, and the fact that it's at GP's expense is irrelevant.
Right or wrong, why would GP want to spend all his resources on defending himself? A lot of guys that take the board for granted don't realize the edge that he's teetering on, I think. Information sites on legal prostitution just aren't that common -- we know this by the high number of hits on this site. It's bound to attract some significant attention sooner or later.
Thus, I'm not sure I would want all the publicity that the Playboy thing might bring. The information could end up in the wrong person's office, and we could have another Marvin Zindler (the hometown boy here who forced the closing of our Chicken Ranch in LaGrange) on our hands. Believe me, it doesn't take much. The CR, when it was in Texas, was very low-key and stayed out of sight. Nevertheless, ol' Marvin made his career by tearing the place down. He was loved in Sunday Schools everywhere.
When I ran a BBS years ago, I had a "god" complex about it, and I felt I was justified. I put too damn much work, money and energy into it for people to try and turn it into something I didn't want it to be. My feelings were especially strong, because it was a free site. When guys started bitching & told me I was "playing God," my standard response was, "You're right-except I'm not playing." If they didn't do what I asked (and yes, I gave them broad latitude, too) they were off the board. Most of them came back and agreed to stay within boundaries, a very few didn't. It didn't always have to do with what they were saying, but that's not the point.
Because of this board's subject matter, we do have more eclectic people here than is typical, I think - thus there'll be more bucking against the rules.
In that sense, I feel more strongly about exercising control than GP apparently does. Where are we going to be if GP gets indicted? I can see it now. "Gosh, good luck, GP." "We're there for ya, man." "Hope they don't use MY posts against you, buddy!" "Hey, somebody start up a GP legal defense fund!" Yeah, right.
GP's got to balance the loss of the erudite posts of some of our most prominent participants against the risks he knows about, and his evaluation of the likelihood that those risks will materialize. It will probably cause some harm for those guys to leave. They do add a lot to the mix. I would hate to see them go. I don't expect my clients to always understand the risks as I do - for pete's sake, I work as house counsel for an ISP, and try to tell these propellor-head principals anything!
I think GP's one of the nicest guys in the world, and you're very accommodating to the people on the board. One of my favorite bosses from the old days said, "Counsel, you're one of the nicest guys in the world. Sometimes, when you're in charge, you have to be a prick, even if it's not really what you are. It may be the only way things get done." I'm not a prick - at least, I don't think so.
But I can act like one! Buffy probably thinks I'm one (even though we've been e-mail friends for some time, until all this crap cropped up), and so, probably, do some of the other folks here. I want you to know - there's more going on that GP has to think about than you realize, and give him some leeway when he seems a bit sensitive about what's being said here.
Nuff said.
Counsel
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Post by Broker on May 16, 2018 18:00:38 GMT -8
Posted by Broker on October 08, 1997 at 10:54:16:
In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 15:48:22:
I think there is a clear distinction between the medium and the message.
GP is merely providing a medium for the exchange of messages. If two people exchange illegal messages, then they are commiting the crime, not GP.
If two people use the phone to pander, do you prosecute the phone company? It would be like the DA shutting down a pager company because drug dealers use it.
Now, if GP was a brothel owner and set up the site to facilitate pandering, then you might have a case.
Hey GP: Are you a brothel owner or a pimp?
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Post by Doc on May 16, 2018 18:04:08 GMT -8
Posted by Doc on October 07, 1997 at 16:08:48:In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 15:48:22:
Counsel,
Thanks for your post.
Note that Buffy is retired, and so neither of these applies to her.
Doc doc@cyberpass.net
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Post by Counsel on May 16, 2018 18:07:47 GMT -8
osted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 16:17:20:In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 07, 1997 at 16:08:48:
I know she's retired - from the houses. It's not so clear to anyone watching the posts, that doesn't know Buffy, that she's retired from the business. A woman posting on this board and responding to those questions doesn't give any outside observer that impression.
What's applicable is "what kind of post is going to get me in trouble?" I wouldn't want to have to defend against a prosecution; that it's later shown (after many dollars and the board are down the tube) that Buffy's really retired becomes one of the trivial facts in the downfall of the board.
Counsel
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Post by Doc on May 16, 2018 18:10:56 GMT -8
Posted by Doc on October 07, 1997 at 16:31:40:In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 16:17:20:
C ounsel,
Your point is that you claim that Buffy is on this board trolling for commercial sex?
Doc doc@cyberpass.net
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Post by Counsel on May 16, 2018 18:14:24 GMT -8
That's not my point.
Posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 16:53:13:In Reply to: Re: Open Letter to GP Regarding Buffy posted by Doc on October 07, 1997 at 16:31:40: C'mon, you know that's not what I'm saying.
And I quote: It's not so clear to anyone watching the posts, that doesn't know Buffy, that she's retired from the business. A woman posting on this board and responding to those questions doesn't give any outside observer that impression.
The point is appearances. The fact that she isn't in the business is irrelevant. I'm talking about how it looks. To someone that wants to whip a jury into a frenzy, that's all that matters.
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Post by Doc on May 16, 2018 18:21:49 GMT -8
Posted by Doc on October 07, 1997 at 16:58:30: In Reply to: That's not my point. posted by Counsel on October 07, 1997 at 16:53:13:Counsel,
I'm afraid I understand your point all too well.
This sounds like the old, "If she wears a short skirt she's asking to be raped."
Here's a hypothetical. If someone on this board asks Jane if she likes sex, and she says, "You bet!" is Jane presumed to be an illegal prostitute trolling for clients?
I have often seen Buffy be quite explicit in her discussions of sex, but I have personally never seen her arrange a commercial date or imply that she was available for an illegal encounter.
Have you?
Doc doc@cyberpass.net
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