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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 11:32:46 GMT -8
arcticbear Webmaster/Owner Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945 Location: Reno
Ref: CWMC Awards Reply with quote Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:47 am FredT made an announcement here regarding the CWMC awards a little while ago. I after some careful consideration, I decided that it's not appropriate here under the current circumstances. And while I'm sure I'll get massive critism for it, I believe it's the right course of action. (besides, I'm sure anyone that really wants to find it can though other resources.)
And for once I will explain my reservations.
First off I recall last years awards. There were many problems, lots of hard feelings and a lot of accusations bantered around because of the awards, and none of them went to the those actually responsible for the event. Personally I don't believe that making 10 posts and having a dick necessarily qualifies or disqualifies someone from voicing an opinon or a vote on such awards. Further there is no cogent reasoning behind them. They apparently do not designate who is "best" but rather are more like a high school popularity contest. Don't get me wrong, I'd dearly love to see an industry standard awards system honoring the best in LPIN. But what we have right now is not it.
Second, I vehemently disagree with the selective nature of these awards. I do not believe that not allowing a ladies co-workers, or employers to vote is legitimate. If the COY award is indeed representative of the best lady in Nevada, and that is without question the implication of these awards, then a cross section of clients, co-workers and owners are essential to that determination.
Third, (and the primary reason for me) is currently, those sponsoring these awards do not appear to be willing to identify themselves. In all past awards those sponsoring it were more than willing to stand behind it. Now, we have an anonymous site with anonymous people providing an anonymous award. It seems pretty ripe for problems to me.
I really doubt that the first two issues will ever be addressed, but for one I cannot in good conscious allow the use of NBT to promote these awards, unless the person, persons or group that is to be accountable for the event step forward and take the responsibility for how this goes down. If that happens we will allow information to be posted here, with the full knowledge that NBT is NOT a sponsor of these awards and has absolutely NO control or responsibility for such.
AB
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Post by fromwyo on Dec 6, 2018 11:38:54 GMT -8
fromwyo Brothel Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 39 Location: Douglas, Wyoming posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:05 am
Hey Fred and the rest of you guys. Hope you read this and it does not get pulled off from here. I am not a part of this conspiracy. I just talk on here and have good parties with the girls. this is the only board I post on because the other ones were shut down or I got banned from them. I have had my 10 posts. I have voted the last few years. Ok. you have your right not to be a part of it. I think it is wrong for Fred not tocount my vote because you got issues. I WANT MY VOTE TO COUNT!
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Post by FredT on Dec 6, 2018 11:43:00 GMT -8
FredT Brothel Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 56 Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:13 am
Fromwyo:
As it is AB's board he certainly has the right to ask us not to post here.
But don't worry, should you choose to vote we will certainly count it. (Just becasue WE can't post here does not mean that we can not verify that you have not posted ten times here in 2006!)
The only problem I see is that anyone who ONLY reads this board will not get reminded (and prodded, and pushed, and nagged Rolling Eyes ) to vote!
FredT
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Post by Massageman on Dec 6, 2018 11:49:04 GMT -8
Massageman Site Admin Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 750
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:10 pm I'm walking a line here, but here goes.
As Head Moderator of this fine site, I have to take the long view of things that relate to posters and controversy. The CWMC awards were certainly controversial last year, if nothing else. But they are also a fun, not-too-serious tradition of the mongering community.
Some people take these awards VERY seriously. That's their choice. For us here at NBT, our only decision was not to have the awards promoted on this board. This decision is due to some unfortunate confusion that occurred around last years' awards. It was through no fault of the folks organizing the awards.
However, there is no reason that anyone involved cannot post here for any other purpose. Come one, come all! The only thing we have chosen to back away from is the TOPIC of the awards and the promoting of them.
Post about anything else that you want. We're glad to have you! _________________ Mas
"I ride the road as I see it"
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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 12:07:03 GMT -8
arcticbear Webmaster/Owner Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945 Location: Reno Re: voting Reply with quote quote: Originally posted by FredT Post Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:47 am
Well that's easy enough Fred. Have the people backing this award identify themselves. Handles would be fine. But after last year, I'm not going to take the fall for the actions of other people. Its that simple. Besides, how legitimate can this be if the people sponsoring it won't step up to the plate? In past years you did, I did, IB did, Curious did, GP did.
AB
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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 12:22:51 GMT -8
arcticbear Webmaster/Owner Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945 Location: Reno Reply with quote Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:47 pm What conspiriacy are you referring to fromwyo? First off in order to have a conspiracy, more than one person has to be involved. This decision was made by me, and me alone. (Ownership has it's privedges). Further, labeling a conspiracy simply because I have decided that this situation requires the slightest amont of ethics is absurd.
I'm certain your vote will count. The question you have to ask is who is sponsoring this to make sure your vote counts. As far as we know it could be the owner of a certain Carson City house who will accumulate all the votes and then announce one of his girls as winner. Probably not, but how do you know?
When Fred was doing it, I had reservations about the implimentation, but I never for one minute questioned the integrety of the voting. Now we have no way of knowing if any integrety exists. That's why I've chosen to not allow posts on this subject until it's resolved.
One more thing, if these people do not indentify themselves (even just by handle) you really need to ask yourself if your vote is going to count. That's far more of a conspiracy than what you're referring to.
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Post by bones on Dec 6, 2018 13:17:34 GMT -8
bones Graduate Brothel Dog Graduate Brothel Dog Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 200 Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:48 am
AB,
I for one totally support your decision in this matter. The awards are at best a cheap grade school popularity contest. There needs to be an open viewable accounting of the vote tally given at some point not just naming a winner, which can lead to second guessing by people. The one in charge as you indicate could very possibly select the winner based upon their personal favorite in any grouping.
As to COY I support your idea of allowing co-workers and house staff to also vote, they're there all the time with these ladies, thus giving having a better feel as to who is actually worhty of such an honor. Another idea I feel that should be looked into is to actually split the COY into the two groups urban and rural, as many really fine ladies only work the smaller houses. This will honor their hard work also, just because a few loud mouth web voices seldom if ever set foot in the rural houses shouldn't exclude these ladies.
A suggestion for the voting could be to have it done like many polls on the various boards. Keep the finial results hidden but show a running total of how many have actually voted to that point. There isn't to my knowledge any way or stated method of varifying if a person has made 10 posts on any board. One major flaw in that requirement is that a new person could skip all over a board (s) posting junk like "hi I'm here," or "that sounds good and I like it," just to bump up their count. So appears some other method can and should be developed if any kind of a requirement is put into force.
Your correct in removing it from your site until it meets conditions for which your concerns and issues with it are properly addresses to your satisfacation. It's a decision that will benefit more than harm, and those still wanting to play in it can easily locate it if desired.
Thanks AB.
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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 13:22:24 GMT -8
arcticbear Webmaster/Owner joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945 Location: Reno Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:55 am
Thanks bones. It's not an easy thing to hammer out for sure. I don't really see how this 10 post thing can work either. In order to do that you would have to have the participation and cooperation of each website listed to ensure that someone wasn't just creating hotmail after hotmail account, and that these posts were not just as you suggested. As for voting, in truth that's actually the easiest thing to accomplish. You simply set up three special email addresses, and a cgi form on the website. You then get three impartial judges and give each one the password to a different address. The cgi form is set to send the voting info to each of those addresses. Then all you do is have the judges count the votes and compare notes. If the votes don't come out the same then you know you have something funny going on. It's redundancy.
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Post by fromwyo on Dec 6, 2018 13:29:54 GMT -8
fromwyo Brothel Newbie Brothel Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 39 Location: Douglas, Wyoming Reply with quote Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:24 pm
What conspiriacy are you referring to fromwyo?
A Conspiriacy was the wrong word that I wanted to use. I meant to use the word controversy.
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Post by FredT on Dec 6, 2018 13:37:18 GMT -8
FredT Brothel Newbie Brothel Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 56 Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:18 PM
OK AB:
Not trying to drag this out, but I think that a bit of history and explanations are in order for those not in "the loop". As you know, for the past three years I have been "hosting" the CWMC awards. I had two other mongers who's job it was to verify the votes and check up on me. (This is done by having every vote cast bounce automatically to all of us, thus eliminating the possibility of any one person "eliminating" a voter or otherwise tampering with the vote.) We also posted the handles of every voter, so they knew their vote counted. Each year, I carried to the CWMC event a hard copy of EVERY vote so that if there were any questions as to tampering, they could be addressed then and there. (Only one monger has ever asked to see this, he did, and left satisfied.)
Now to this year. Last summer at the breakfast meetings, I told the group that I would rather not host the awards in 2007 for two reasons. First, I will not be present this summer. (Family reunion, much to my disgust!) Second, my financial condition took a big hit when I had my little "accident"a year ago, and the $600 - $800 I was spending each year on the website and awards was getting a bit hard to handle.
At that time a number of mongers stepped forward to offer to either help financially or in the vote counting. So after a lot of additional talk during this years winterfest meeting this is how things have shaken out:
I am still involved as a "vote taker", as are Bashful, ex-okie and one other well known monger who asks to remain anonymous due to a number of reasons. (Again, every vote goes DIRECTLY to each of the four of us, so no one can manipulate the data. If any of us have any concerns or questions regarding a vote, he simply e-mails the main address that concern, which again goes to ALL of us.)
In addition to the vote takers, there are a couple other "financial" backers who contributed to running the web site, and the awards. They are NOT involved with the vote counting or verifying.
Now, I know that there is no way that all of us will ever agree on the way such awards will be run/handled/verified/etc/etc. We have spoken of that often. Is this any more than a popularity contest? Obviously not. Am I against anyone else running another vote? HELL NO! Pats awards three years ago, and the NBG awards two years ago just served to validate the awards we were doing. (Different requirements, different methods, same results)
After the misunderstanding regarding this site last year, I know we all will be REALLY careful this year to repeat (and repeat, and repeat) that these awards have NOTHING to do with any one board, poster, or house.
Hope this answered your questions and allayed your fears.
Fred
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Post by Bobbi slr on Dec 6, 2018 13:41:02 GMT -8
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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 13:46:12 GMT -8
arcticbear
Webmaster/Owner Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945
Location: Reno Post Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:56 pm So what your saying is nobodies in charge, or nobodies responsible? Gosh Fred, if thess peoople are so gunshy about accepting responsibility publicly, do you really think it's wise to carry on with something that supposed to be "just for fun" especially when it's obviously not fun for a lot of the ladies that get their feelings hurt over it? And besides, what's the point of having an award from someone too ashamed to identify themselves. Doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by Arcticbear on Dec 6, 2018 13:52:15 GMT -8
arcticbear Webmaster/Owner Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 945 Location: Reno Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:00 pm Sure you can Bobbie. But what is the point of an award that's given out by someone that is too ashamed of what their doing to identify who they are? Will the award read "'Small Brothel of the Year' from no particular group or perosn that cares"? I'd sure love to have that in my trophy case.
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Post by FredT on Dec 6, 2018 13:58:32 GMT -8
FredT Brothel Newbie Brothel Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 56 Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:45 pm
huh? No AB, I am not saying no one is "in charge"..... The four of us are "in charge", so to speak. We are all in agreement as to the format of the awards, the rules, and the awards themselves. No hidden agenda, no conspericy, nothing but a bunch of guys who believe in the industry, believe in fair play, and believe in giving something back.
I really did not think that having ONE of the members being "silent" would be an issue here, (It was not an issue for the past three years when two other "unnamed" mongers checked my numbers... why now?) If I had known that an esteemed member of our comunity like yourself HAD objections, I would have asked he not be involved. but thats 20-20 hindsight.
As far as the awards themselves, as they have been for the past 11 years, they are the CWMC awards, nothing more or less. If they don't mean anything to someone, so be it. Unfortunately, votes like this can (And allwyas will) hurt the loosers feelings. I certainly am sorry that they hurt Desiree's feelings last year. As I posted a couple of months ago on SIN, she was (in my opinion) the one who SHOULD have won for the past three years, since she was up for the award the year you ran it. (DAMN but that was one classy lady!)
Fred
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Post by Samurai on Dec 6, 2018 14:09:10 GMT -8
Samurai Moderator Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 875
Location: 5 O'Clock Somewhere
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:01 am
Did You Dee-Dee-Dee's Ever Consider This!!!!
Okay, Fred, I'll cut you and the others some slack in the logistics part of your awards.
But you yourself admitted right here that this high school-ish good ol' boys club popularity contest caused a lot of problems.
Did you guys ever consider putting your ego aside and consider
having the courtesy of asking Arctic Bear through a PM or email permission to use our board/website as a prerequisite for voting?
A simple courtesy in private prior to posting your criteria and posting your awards would have avoided this problem. A simple courtesy request. Whether his answer was yes, not a problem. If the answer was no, we both go our separate ways. Was it so hard to put the ego aside, or in some cases, the hard feelings aside?
Or was the reason you did this without asking was to fuck with our business plan and twist more of the knife in my back? If that was the real motive ...
I'm not going to say it but you Dee-Dee-Dee's! might know what I'm thinking right now. _________________Samurai samurai@nevadabrotheltimes.com editors@companyladies.com companyladies.com
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